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www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-lea ... rs-3725544
If one of the mods wants to merge this with another thread, do so by all means, but I think there is an interesting element here that might be worthy of discussion all on its own.
First of all, we'd expect Joel to say exactly this as he wants to win back any friends he may have lost on his initial conversion to Union, and I'm sure he gave similar interviews, only the other way around, when he first crossed over there. So, delighted though I am to have him back, I'm not totally convinced by this "League is my real game" lark (even though in pure technical terms I believe it is). While there may have been some homesickness involved, I strongly suspect he's back here because he could see the writing on the wall as regards his RU international future.
And this seems to be underlined by there being barely any mention of Saracens in this interview.
The entire focus is on Joel's anxiety over whether to play for Wigan or play for England. It really seems to be the case that international RU is the dangling carrot that takes our guys over there. Of course, I'm sure we all know that already. I've never felt the attraction of clubs like Saracens and Bath could seriously rival the attraction of a club like Wigan, or like St Helens or Leeds for that matter (though there's no doubt the small-minded incompetence of the RFL is a seriously unattractive feature of our game). But this article must prove it. There is clearly no concern in Joel's mind about leaving Saracens. Likewise, the whole Sam Burgess transfer saga was centred around [uwhen[/u he will play for England RU, not [uif[/u. No one actually noticed or cared which domestic RU club he was to be allocated to. In fact, the thought of Bath providing a rival attraction to South Sydney is utterly laughable.
It doesn't say much for the Aviva clubs if they are nothing more than stepping stones for these guys. Though presumably they'll be beneficiaries of such - acquiring the services of RL stars who they evidently wouldn't get anywhere near without England RU's involvement - it says even less for them that they are happy to sit there and watch their domestic rivals be strengthened immeasurably through no efforts of their own (a hypothetical comparison would be if the RFL suddenly purchased Billy Slater, Greg Inglis and Cameron Smith and gave them to Bradford, Hull and Castleford, while the rest of us were told to accept it), never mind the subsequent shutting out of RU talent that has come up through the ranks.
The next question, therefore, is how to we remedy this? We can either sit back and hope it doesn't work out for the converts - as it didn't with Joel and probably won't with Kyle Eastmond - or we can take steps to bolster our own international game. I should quickly say that I don't know how we can realistically do that (so it's a good thing I'm not responsible for making the decisions), but as we are clearly tied to this "we won't pay them what they are worth" principle, we really must start seriously talking to the Aussies and Kiwis about recreating a vibrant international dimension in RL. More tournaments, more tours, and better marketing on all fronts - competitive ticket prices etc - so that we generate the kinds of crowds these guys deserve to be playing in front of.
I'm sure I'm preaching to the converted on this matter, and probably telling everyone something they already know. But this article - more than any other I've read in recent times - has enforced my belief that, without its international dimension, RU would be of genuine limited interest to our star players.
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www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-lea ... rs-3725544
If one of the mods wants to merge this with another thread, do so by all means, but I think there is an interesting element here that might be worthy of discussion all on its own.
First of all, we'd expect Joel to say exactly this as he wants to win back any friends he may have lost on his initial conversion to Union, and I'm sure he gave similar interviews, only the other way around, when he first crossed over there. So, delighted though I am to have him back, I'm not totally convinced by this "League is my real game" lark (even though in pure technical terms I believe it is). While there may have been some homesickness involved, I strongly suspect he's back here because he could see the writing on the wall as regards his RU international future.
And this seems to be underlined by there being barely any mention of Saracens in this interview.
The entire focus is on Joel's anxiety over whether to play for Wigan or play for England. It really seems to be the case that international RU is the dangling carrot that takes our guys over there. Of course, I'm sure we all know that already. I've never felt the attraction of clubs like Saracens and Bath could seriously rival the attraction of a club like Wigan, or like St Helens or Leeds for that matter (though there's no doubt the small-minded incompetence of the RFL is a seriously unattractive feature of our game). But this article must prove it. There is clearly no concern in Joel's mind about leaving Saracens. Likewise, the whole Sam Burgess transfer saga was centred around [uwhen[/u he will play for England RU, not [uif[/u. No one actually noticed or cared which domestic RU club he was to be allocated to. In fact, the thought of Bath providing a rival attraction to South Sydney is utterly laughable.
It doesn't say much for the Aviva clubs if they are nothing more than stepping stones for these guys. Though presumably they'll be beneficiaries of such - acquiring the services of RL stars who they evidently wouldn't get anywhere near without England RU's involvement - it says even less for them that they are happy to sit there and watch their domestic rivals be strengthened immeasurably through no efforts of their own (a hypothetical comparison would be if the RFL suddenly purchased Billy Slater, Greg Inglis and Cameron Smith and gave them to Bradford, Hull and Castleford, while the rest of us were told to accept it), never mind the subsequent shutting out of RU talent that has come up through the ranks.
The next question, therefore, is how to we remedy this? We can either sit back and hope it doesn't work out for the converts - as it didn't with Joel and probably won't with Kyle Eastmond - or we can take steps to bolster our own international game. I should quickly say that I don't know how we can realistically do that (so it's a good thing I'm not responsible for making the decisions), but as we are clearly tied to this "we won't pay them what they are worth" principle, we really must start seriously talking to the Aussies and Kiwis about recreating a vibrant international dimension in RL. More tournaments, more tours, and better marketing on all fronts - competitive ticket prices etc - so that we generate the kinds of crowds these guys deserve to be playing in front of.
I'm sure I'm preaching to the converted on this matter, and probably telling everyone something they already know. But this article - more than any other I've read in recent times - has enforced my belief that, without its international dimension, RU would be of genuine limited interest to our star players.
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Internationals is where RU are light years ahead of RL, it's where they get most of their money from too. They can play 'friendlies' in front of 80000 at twickenham where we struggled to get 25000 for World Cup games.
You can't blame players for wanting to play in that kind of arena.
I've been saying for a long time RL needs a set international calendar that we will stick to. We try concepts like the exiles for a couple of years and forget about it.
Everyone will have their own opinion of what we should do but I like the idea of introducing an RU style 5 nations. I think there is more chance of players that would be willing to play for Wales, Scotland and Ireland if they had regular fixtures. There is also more chance of clubs like the scorpions & crusaders being a success if their international team played regularly.
Without going into too much detail or giving it too much thought as to where fixtures would fit in:
5 nations (England, France, Wales, Scotland & Ireland) during the season every year
5 nations (Australia, New Zealand, PNG, Fiji, Samoa/Tonga) during the season every year
Every 4 years a World Cup
Every 4 years a 'lions tour' down under post season
With 2 full off seasons for players to recover.
Most of all it needs us supporters to actually buy into international RL.
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From the interviews I've seen I think the fact his wife is pregnant and therefore wanting to move back to the area closer to family was a big factor. There definitely will be an element of PR spin to his interviews but I genuinely believe him about his desire to play for Wigan. It's his boyhood club that he grew up supporting and has played for since his teens. He's a very good actor if the passion he's showing in some of these interviews isn't genuine.
FWIW the RFU haven't funded Sam Burgess' move to Bath.
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| Quote Eastbourne Warrior="Eastbourne Warrior"Internationals is where RU are light years ahead of RL, it's where they get most of their money from too. They can play 'friendlies' in front of 80000 at twickenham where we struggled to get 25000 for World Cup games.
You can't blame players for wanting to play in that kind of arena.
I've been saying for a long time RL needs a set international calendar that we will stick to. We try concepts like the exiles for a couple of years and forget about it.
Everyone will have their own opinion of what we should do but I like the idea of introducing an RU style 5 nations. I think there is more chance of players that would be willing to play for Wales, Scotland and Ireland if they had regular fixtures. There is also more chance of clubs like the scorpions & crusaders being a success if their international team played regularly.
Without going into too much detail or giving it too much thought as to where fixtures would fit in:
5 nations (England, France, Wales, Scotland & Ireland) during the season every year
5 nations (Australia, New Zealand, PNG, Fiji, Samoa/Tonga) during the season every year
Every 4 years a World Cup
Every 4 years a 'lions tour' down under post season
With 2 full off seasons for players to recover.
Most of all it needs us supporters to actually buy into international RL.'"
A European 6 nations works in RU because there are 6 reasonably competitive teams. We are light years off ever having a proper mid season competition in RL. You simply couldn't justify having a large break from SL for a competition that England would win at a canter.
We need to play to our strengths, and as a sport ours is in the club game not the international scene. Of course we need to keep developing the international game but more games between the elite nations and the developing nations isn't the answer. I would work on a 4/5 year cycle off post season tournaments which encompasses GB Tours, 4 Nations, World Cup and an expanded World Club Challenge. | | |
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It certainly does make it clear as day that we need to improve the prestige of playing international rugby league. Bringing back GB tours would be a good start IMO. Whilst I agree that the other three home nations don’t really bring much more to the table in playing terms (there’s only Ben Flower I can think of who isn’t English but might make a GB side) people just seem to get behind them more. Let’s get back to packing out DW, Huddersfield etc for £25+ tickets as we used to.
Ideally I’d like to see the calendar go tour, four nations, tour, world cup, rinse and repeat alternating hemispheres with us competing as GB for all but the world cup.
Add to that every year we could have a home nations tournament of England under 23s, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and France; with something likewise taking place between the island nations down under. The games could be used as curtain raisers to ashes games etc where possible. The team that wins the tournament the year before the four nations is held in their hemisphere gets to compete in them.
An expanded WCC would be great too but I suppose it depends how much the aussies buy into it. I wouldn’t have any more than three SL teams involved in order to mitigate the chance of batterings. Perhaps on tour years we could do something like:
Week 1
A – SL 2 v NRL 3
B – SL 3 v NRL 2
Week 2
C – SL 1 v Winner A
D – NRL 1 v Winner B
Week 3
E – Winner C v Winner D
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I think a big reason that Joel is back is that Saracens have Bosch and Barrit now firmly established as their first choice centres so there was little chance of gametime for Joel next season anyway. As such Saracens are probably glad to get a very highly paid player off their salary cap who is no longer first choice. Also from Joel's point of view there would have been little prospect of him getting anywhere near the same salary again when his contract was up.
He has been overtaken at Saracens and will have had no chance of getting back in the England team, and several have overtaken them there too such as Eastmond. Joel has been really unfortunate with injuries at crucial times in his RU career that have hampered his progress. I still played for England though which in itself is a great achievement. I think this is one of those deals that suits all parties.
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| Quote Grimmy="Grimmy"It certainly does make it clear as day that we need to improve the prestige of playing international rugby league. Bringing back GB tours would be a good start IMO. Whilst I agree that the other three home nations don’t really bring much more to the table in playing terms (there’s only Ben Flower I can think of who isn’t English but might make a GB side) people just seem to get behind them more. Let’s get back to packing out DW, Huddersfield etc for £25+ tickets as we used to.
Ideally I’d like to see the calendar go tour, four nations, tour, world cup, rinse and repeat alternating hemispheres with us competing as GB for all but the world cup.
Add to that every year we could have a home nations tournament of England under 23s, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and France; with something likewise taking place between the island nations down under. The games could be used as curtain raisers to ashes games etc where possible. The team that wins the tournament the year before the four nations is held in their hemisphere gets to compete in them.'"
More needs to be done with the England Knights IMO. They should run a developing nations tournament in parallel to the elite nations one. This season the Knights could go down under and play a tournament against PNG, Samoa and Tonga with the games being played as curtain raisers to the 4 Nations games. Then when the 4N is over here run a similar tournament featuring Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Italy.
If the NRL are insistent that Australia won't be playing internationals in 2016 (which is why the mooted GB tour is apparently not happening), then I would focus the intentions in to arranging an 8 team WCC over here. We can't have another European international tournament as our only international RL like we did in 2012. | | |
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| Quote WARRIORCRAIG="WARRIORCRAIG"More needs to be done with the England Knights IMO. They should run a developing nations tournament in parallel to the elite nations one. This season the Knights could go down under and play a tournament against PNG, Samoa and Tonga with the games being played as curtain raisers to the 4 Nations games. Then when the 4N is over here run a similar tournament featuring Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Italy.
If the NRL are insistent that Australia won't be playing internationals in 2016 (which is why the mooted GB tour is apparently not happening), then I would focus the intentions in to arranging an 8 team WCC over here. We can't have another European international tournament as our only international RL like we did in 2016.'"
I hadn’t realised the NRL had taken that stance, that’s good of them! | | | |
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| Quote Grimmy="Grimmy"I hadn’t realised the NRL had taken that stance, that’s good of them!'"
I mean 2015 not 2016, and yes that's what seemed to be the reason why a tour isn't likely to happen. | | |
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For international rugby to take off we need Australia pushing the agenda or more to the point the people in charge off the NRL and their sponsors.
Australia like to spout off that it is our fault and to a lesser extent the Kiwis that the international game can't draw interest due to us not being able to compete but they show no willing to change or help out when they are in the strongest position to do so.
It's easy to just coordinate a complete shut down mid season for 1 month.
All players realised to fly to their appropriate side of the world.
6N each side
England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, France and Italy
New Zealand, Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, PNG, Cook Islands
Aus because of their dominance play SOO that month, they could possibly extend it to a 5 game series.
Other players not selected get a month off to rest, have operations, recover injuries.
Even have a Europe v Oceania 3 game series end of the season
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| Quote Wire Yed="Wire Yed"For international rugby to take off we need Australia pushing the agenda or more to the point the people in charge off the NRL and their sponsors.
Australia like to spout off that it is our fault and to a lesser extent the Kiwis that the international game can't draw interest due to us not being able to compete but they show no willing to change or help out when they are in the strongest position to do so.
It's easy to just coordinate a complete shut down mid season for 1 month.
All players realised to fly to their appropriate side of the world.
6N each side
England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, France and Italy
New Zealand, Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, PNG, Cook Islands
Aus because of their dominance play SOO that month, they could possibly extend it to a 5 game series.
Other players not selected get a month off to rest, have operations, recover injuries.
Even have a Europe v Oceania 3 game series end of the season'"
If that happened then the majority of SL fans would would take a break from attending games. You can't force international RL to become popular by playing full time professional players against teams made up of semi pros and ozzies who qualify under some dodgy eligibility rules. No doubt hardly any of the ones who played in the World Cup would be available for a mid season tournament in the UK. The idea you have proposed would be good but requires years of further development in France, Italy and the other home nations first. It would also be incredibly difficult to work a 30+ game season around such a competition. | | | |
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